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Post by Gareth Williams on Aug 4, 2017 8:15:32 GMT
Hmm,
I'm just reading a summary of the latest version of the Air Navigation Order (thanks Jerry Swift for all your hard work on this).
According to article 5. The aerodrome traffic zone of an aerodrome with a runway of less than 1850 metres is 2 nautical miles from the midpoint of the runway. It is 2.5 miles from the midpoint of the longest runway for aerodromes having a runway longer that 1850 metres.
Under the old regulation, we used to be able to fly up to 30 metres agl within the aerodrome traffic zone. The new regulation (article 92) prohibits kite flying completely within the traffic zone without first getting permission from the person in charge of the aerodrome or the CAA.
Steve, as our resident cartographer (?) can I seek your guidance please on the distance from the mid-point of the runway at Lydd airport to the Lade car park, and also on the length of the runway at Lydd as this will have some impact on whether we can hold ad-hoc fly-ins there in future. It will be such a shame to lose the site.
I bet the kite surfers and buggyists aren't aware!
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Post by evets on Aug 4, 2017 8:57:32 GMT
Hmm, I'm just reading a summary of the latest version of the Air Navigation Order (thanks Jerry Swift for all your hard work on this). According to article 5. The aerodrome traffic zone of an aerodrome with a runway of less than 1850 metres is 2 nautical miles from the midpoint of the runway. It is 2.5 miles from the midpoint of the longest runway for aerodromes having a runway longer that 1850 metres. Under the old regulation, we used to be able to fly up to 30 metres agl within the aerodrome traffic zone. The new regulation (article 92) prohibits kite flying completely within the traffic zone without first getting permission from the person in charge of the aerodrome or the CAA. Steve, as our resident cartographer (?) can I seek your guidance please on the distance from the mid-point of the runway at Lydd airport to the Lade car park, and also on the length of the runway at Lydd as this will have some impact on whether we can hold ad-hoc fly-ins there in future. It will be such a shame to lose the site. I bet the kite surfers and buggyists aren't aware! Lydd airports runway is currently 1505m but I believe they have consent to extend! 2.5 Nautical Miles is 2.87695 statute Miles or 4630.002220548metres The Lade Car Park is only 2171 metres {1.172246 nautical miles 1.3489966048278 statute miles} just south of due east of the centre of the runway! So it looks like we would need consent for any flying there. Do buggies and boards use lines longer than 30 metres?
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Post by ekim on Aug 4, 2017 10:25:50 GMT
Are general public beach kite flyers aware? How is it going to be enforced?
Are Lydd airport likely to object to kite flying from the beach?
Mike
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Post by Gareth Williams on Aug 4, 2017 11:50:36 GMT
Thanks Steve. I don't think the length of the lines used is relevant, as, according to the new rules, kite flying is prohibited unless permission is obtained.
Mike, The general public won't be aware, because they won't be aware that kite flying is covered by the air navigation order. But at Lydd, on the beach, unless they are very silly, they will literally be flying under the radar so unlikely to be a problem.
How is it going to be enforced? By some jobsworth copper turning up and saying you can't fly that there! Seriously though, it is only likely to be enforced if the police receive a complaint from Lydd airport tower. Ask Norman Eyers, who I think was asked to remove his kite from the sky by the policy when it showed up on Manston's radar (many years ago now)! Realistically that will only happen if we are flying too high and they receive a complaint by a pilot coming in or going out. But bear in mind that the stretch of coast does seem to be part of the circuit used by pilots.
Are Lydd airport likely to object? Probably not, see the comments above. There haven't been any complaints when we've been there up to now, and I see no reason why that would change, provided we fly low and don't take the pee! However, the ANO is enacted as law, and the penalties are severe, ranging from fines to up to two years imprisonment (or both), depending on the severity of the offence.
My boss always used to say that there are two approaches to follow to anything - seek permission beforehand, or seek forgiveness afterwards. Personally, in these circumstances, I think the former is the better approach. The order requires permission to be obtained from the person in charge of the aerodrome, the appropriate air traffic control unit OR the CAA. I think a sensible approach would be to write to the airport manager (sorry Malc, but I think this falls onto the shoulders of the secretary), saying we have flown on the beach at, or near, the Lade car park, including the grid reference. Referring to the changes in the ANO and asking whether they have any objection to us flying there in the future, providing we do not exceed 30 metres AGL (possibly push for 60 metres if we're feeling cheeky), and offer to give them notification by email of our intent to fly there, so that they can raise an objection beforehand if necessary. I guess it is up to the committee to determine the approach they want to adopt.
Jerry's document contains some interesting links, which I'll have a look at later. I guess there is an interesting question about whether Manston is still a notified aerodrome, and how close Palm Bay is to Manston runway.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by Gareth Williams on Aug 4, 2017 12:25:06 GMT
Further to the above, it would seem that Manston is no longer a notified aerodrome.
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Post by malcolmf on Aug 4, 2017 14:47:46 GMT
Further to the above, it would seem that Manston is no longer a notified aerodrome. Manston is no longer a designated aerodrome under the local plan, but as we have a turncoat as leader of the council, just watch this space, as their is an application for a DCO, which is something like a designated compulsory order, as of being of strategic and national importance. Thanks Gareth for another job, I will write to Lydd in the next week or so, when I ahve got on top of everything else, that is going on. Still to read Jerry's update on CAA regs, hopefully our BKFA reps will keep us updated.
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Post by Gareth Williams on Aug 4, 2017 15:51:30 GMT
Happy to talk it through on Sunday.
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Post by evets on Aug 4, 2017 16:13:53 GMT
Further to the above, it would seem that Manston is no longer a notified aerodrome. Manston is no longer a designated aerodrome under the local plan, but as we have a turncoat as leader of the council, just watch this space, as their is an application for a DCO, which is something like a designated compulsory order, as of being of strategic and national importance. Thanks Gareth for another job, I will write to Lydd in the next week or so, when I ahve got on top of everything else, that is going on. Still to read Jerry's update on CAA regs, hopefully our BKFA reps will keep us updated. Malcom I case you don't have the details London Ashford Airport Ltd, Lydd Airport, Romney Road, Lydd Romney Marsh Kent TN29 9QL Telephone: +44 (0) 1797 322400 Email: info@lydd-airport.co.uk Email: tower@lydd-airport.co.uk
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Post by evets on Aug 4, 2017 16:20:51 GMT
If Manston was still an Airfield it would not be a problem as Palm Bay is roughly 4.5 miles away and The Sunken Garden just over 3 miles away.
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Post by malcolmf on Aug 4, 2017 21:19:32 GMT
Stephen
Thanks for the information about address. saves me a few minutes
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Post by timtank on Aug 5, 2017 9:36:33 GMT
To be honest Gareth, kite surfers and buggyist rarely if ever run on lines longer than 25 m or usually less!
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Post by Gareth Williams on Aug 5, 2017 18:40:32 GMT
To be honest Gareth, kite surfers and buggyist rarely if ever run on lines longer than 25 m or usually less! But under the new regulation line length and therefore height is irrelevant. Kite flying is prohibited.
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Post by timtank on Aug 6, 2017 8:15:42 GMT
Manston still has at least two active helipads if you include the one by Bell's - worth pointing out. Plus a lot of the light aircraft once based at Manston have relocated to the airstrip at Maypole near Hoath - not sure how far that is from Herne Bay seafront! Other sites that might be of interest to us are Woodchurch - although the old RAF base has gone, the current airfield may well be within 3 miles of the Green; also from having lived in Paddock Wood, I know of several airstrips not far from Teston!
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Post by timtank on Aug 7, 2017 9:07:58 GMT
To be honest Gareth, kite surfers and buggyist rarely if ever run on lines longer than 25 m or usually less! But under the new regulation line length and therefore height is irrelevant. Kite flying is prohibited. There are some wider and slightly worrying implications here. I think that some power-kiters would say "oh well we're running short lines so we shouldn't worry about it", I would imagine many buggy fans (and there aren't that many of us) would give that reply. A rather more serious issue would come from the kite surfing community, particularly those newer to the sport - I seriously doubt some of them even consider themselves kite flyers at all!
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Post by evets on Aug 7, 2017 12:21:24 GMT
Manston still has at least two active helipads if you include the one by Bell's - worth pointing out. Plus a lot of the light aircraft once based at Manston have relocated to the airstrip at Maypole near Hoath - not sure how far that is from Herne Bay seafront! Other sites that might be of interest to us are Woodchurch - although the old RAF base has gone, the current airfield may well be within 3 miles of the Green; also from having lived in Paddock Wood, I know of several airstrips not far from Teston! I'm sure Gareth will correct me if I'm wrong but I think this only refers to Airfields that have registered control zones not small private fields that are used no more than 28 days a year and therefore do not need planning consent either.
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