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Post by rokbottom on Jul 3, 2017 17:05:12 GMT
Struth, have we our own GOGS, we have attended other less attended events and not complained, it was to be expected that footfall would be low as the site is in the middle of nowhere. Lots of cars pulled up to watch, it was there choice whether to get out or not. I think the Arena was to protect our Kites from children swinging on the Kite Tails etc. Eden the Port Lympne Events Guy was very satisfied with our efforts and will be planning next years 2 day Event.
Len.
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Post by Gareth Williams on Jul 3, 2017 18:36:21 GMT
I quite like having kids playing with my kites as ling as they don't deliberately cause damage
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Post by gerty on Jul 3, 2017 19:54:49 GMT
Was especially great when we were in Berck when we put up our bunnies...
Despite all of the great stuff being flown in the arenas we were inundated with people taking photos of themselves with the kites...which they were able to physically touch.
People, including children need to feel experiences for themselves.
If we want to draw people to the delight of kite flying they need to know what it feels like and to know that we want them to be part of the whole experience which will often start with our tolerance of their curiosity including touch.
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Post by malcolmf on Jul 4, 2017 8:10:59 GMT
Thanks for your comments Gareth, which are noted. There is an issue around Health and Safety not just with the kites themeselves, suddenly deflating or becoming unstable, but also the strength of the line and the anchoring points. As the event co-ordinator, I have to consider these matters with the owners of the land. Should a member of the public be injured, and in this day and age there could be a protracted legal case about compensation and liabilty. The fencing was also there to prevent any member of the public flying their own kites into the display kites, as has happen in the past.
There seems to be a different culture abroad in regard to compensation issues, and more awareness of taking responsibilty for their own safety.
I fully agree that it is good to have spectators come along and chat about kites and to be able to photograph and touch kites, again this seems to be a minority view, due as I have said the compensation culture and legal firms attached to same in the UK.
However after all the above, the events manager at Port Lympne was very impressed by the kites flown and the effort to overcome the wind and the lack of it.
I have a meeting with him sometime in August, as he would like us to come back next year, and is looking for proposals from KKF in regard to what is possible to arrange, giving a longer lead in time. This includes a two day event with camping being allowed. Would appreciate any reasonable comments from all
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Post by Gareth Williams on Jul 4, 2017 9:09:17 GMT
I fully understand the comments around health and safety, but have a few of my own...
The road spikes used to mark the arena are positively dangerous. Picture this scenario (which is real life, as it happened to me). The lifter kite loses lift and comes down to a point where the sagging line drapes across the barrier, the kite drifts and the result is that the sagging line is now under the hook of the pin. The kite powers up and climbs rapidly pulling the pin out of the ground, which then detaches and falls to the ground like a spear. Please can we stop using them. If you look at the KSGB risk assessment you will see that they are positively discriminated against. Forget tearing fabric, that can be repaired!
The lines used to fly show kites are thick enough not really to cause serious injury unless someone actually gets caught up in them. There is more danger from something breaking away and someone getting tangled in bridles, or grabbing the moving line and getting a burn. If we warn people that kite lines can be dangerous and people enter the area at their own risk, surely that is sufficient?
Likewise, the anchors used are big enough to see, and are usually clearly marked by a blinking great line real, or various kite bags. Again, if we warn people of the possible trip hazard, do we really need to do more? The alternative is to hire in rubble bags like a beach festival would. But if you go along that route, there has to be a means to move them based on the wind conditions.
Thoughts on next year...
If camping is going to be available it needs to be from Friday (afternoon/evening) to Monday morning. People will need access to fresh water, and toilet facilities would be good.
The kite flying needs to happen nearer to the car park. We were too far away. To Len's comment, yes people stopped on the access road as they arrived or departed, but only if they were going out onto the A20 towards Ashford. It was too far to walk, and in totally the wrong direction if they wanted to come from the car park, i.e. away from the zoo park, which is, after all, why they were there. Put the kites in where you were selling and making kites, move you to where the segways were, put campers along the hedgerow.
The field is big enough to have a show arena, but if we do that, there needs to be a full programme, which means paying people to attend. Suddenly the budget is increased. Think along the lines of how Dunstable works. But also bear in mind we are a small club. If you want us to fly show kites, we can't also be filling arena time with other stuff. But it doesn't have to be all kite related arena time. Think village fete. Maybe a demonstration by a dance school, perhaps the local karate club, perhaps a boys brigade band (do they still exist?) Anything to fill some time. Then throw in some kite demo's - a couple of display teams, maybe some single line flyers like Dave Ellison, etc. as long as there are people to fly his kites for him and a good commentator of course.
Have some other stuff going on - street entertainers, perhaps a juggler, a street magician, that kind of thing to keep the public amused.
Just some random thoughts.
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Post by timtank on Jul 4, 2017 10:54:52 GMT
Glad to hear it went reasonably well given the conditions. We've used the site a couple of times before for the Scouts and found it a bit challenging. The wind was a bit dodgy all over during the weekend, I managed an hour or so at Stoney Cross in the New Forest on Sunday where it was switching from 0-10mph or so in the space of a heat beat.
On the H&S thing, I seem to recall that on both occasions with the Scouts we had to cone off the flying area despite very few cars in the car park. They supplied the cones but we had to lay them out and pick up the damn things after we finished for the day!
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Post by malcolmf on Jul 4, 2017 15:28:41 GMT
All comments receieved and taken on board. Just to state that the reason why the arena was away from the maion car park, was the events manager was considering parking cars for the kite event away from main car park and charging a small fee for each car, i.e trying to make it a separate stand alone event, which could assist in increasinbg footfall into the acvtual animal park. Re pins fully understand Gareth, many councils will not allow the use of them and require the use of the plastic stand alone)integrated fencing you often see now around road works.
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Post by rokbottom on Jul 4, 2017 17:05:58 GMT
I quite like having kids playing with my kites as ling as they don't deliberately cause damage At Walmer, once one child thought it fun to hang on to my octopus tentacles then soon there lots doing it to the amusement of their parents who couldn't give a toss, but I could.
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Post by peter on Jul 5, 2017 16:02:40 GMT
I know its nice to have interaction from the public but that has to be on our terms I'm afraid. I'd be the first to agree that it's nice to have the public coming in and having photos in front of our inflatables but only in small controlled doses. I've done it quite successfully at Margam Park and also at foreign festivals but it's always been with two pilots working together - one with the kite and one with the eager member of the public. It simply isn't safe enough to let people have free access to a site where large (5 meter and larger) inflatables are being flown. That was why I took the fish down at Walmer; there were too many kids trying to grab it. Ask Steve about the pain he suffered when a single shroud line wrapped itself around his hand irrespective of the damage to the fish. He is an experienced flyer, imagine a child getting wrapped in one of these lines! I agree that it would have been better for interaction if we had been nearer the car park and the public encouraged to walk around to stalls and attractions on the arena area where we were flying. Under those circumstances the smaller (up to 5 meter) inflatables could be positioned along the sides and young children with a responsible parent could come in and have pictures taken. Maybe this is something that could be fed back for next year. In conclusion, I think we all did the best we could with the conditions we were presented with. The couple I felt sorriest for were Barbara and Mike; with the wind changing as much as it was they were constantly being taken down by one higher lifter or another yet in spite of that they persevered and made an excellent display of stick kites. We could really do with more club members to assist at this type of event to ease the pressure on the few. With more pilots there more ripstop could be in the sky and more time available for those that need a comfort break; like Gareth I never really got to leave the flying for more than a couple of seconds and when I did to grab a bite to eat I came back to a downed Mantaray. Len was watching it for me but couldn't sort the problem and watch his own kite at the same time. I enjoyed the day, flying kites with friends and supporting our club but would not be happy with the public roaming around underneath them unsupervised.......oh, and by the way, yes I broke spars - two on my Panther Genki and one on my Brasington Dark Matter - hey-ho.
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Post by DaveC on Jul 8, 2017 19:42:24 GMT
With regard to the arena. Being an ex event organiser the problems we used to face was the public's disregard for a fenced of arena and would just walk under the tape and carry on across the field as though nothing was going on even with a PA as this was there normal route regardless. to pick up on a point by peter "We could really do with more club members to assist at this type of event to ease the pressure on the few." other than we need more members anyway Malcolm what percentage of our members attended this event.
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Post by malcolmf on Jul 9, 2017 19:07:22 GMT
To pick up on a couple of points.
Firstly on Gareth's re fee. There was no fee for this day, although I have quoted one for two day event, with KKF displaying and co-ordinating the kite event with invited flyers. This was intended to be a trial fly day, but the Park event organiser wanted more.
Secondly David Clements point about numbers of members. We have around 40 plus members including family and retired members. There are probably 15 flyers who come out in the season on a regular basis. Not all were present for one reason or another. There are another two or three regular flyers who are unable to come to our events of come flying on Sundays.
Members are getting older and less able. We seem to be unable to attract and keep new members
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